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To: "Russell Berry" <russ,AT,berrex,DOT,com>
Subject: Re: java
From: Damion Wilson <dwilson,AT,ibl,DOT,bm>
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 14:29:52 -0300
Cc: cipe-l,AT,inka,DOT,de
In-reply-to: <11d801c33cc2$e136c1d0$1401010a@berrex.com>
References: <10d901c33bf2$d6525430$1401010a@berrex.com> <200306271215.24310.dwilson@ibl.bm> <11d801c33cc2$e136c1d0$1401010a@berrex.com>

I'm with you. You're thinking of a little environment which has its own 
partial TCP/IP stack implementing the CIPE protocol that can host Java 
network programs so that people can get at things without playing with the 
host system setup. That's not a bad idea. It should be doable and worthwhile, 
but may take some time hooking things into the Java networking libs

Congratulations, BTW !

DKW

On Friday 27 June 2003 12:43 pm, Russell Berry wrote:
> Well, let me move a little further away from Windows, and toward
> cross-platform independence.  Since java code lives in 'virtual machine'
> space the network adapter part would have to be created and accessed within
> the java JDK.  Again, I'm not sure how that would take place, I haven't
> done any java coding in about 5 years so I remember little of what is
> available in the way of devices.    But I'm not focusing on 'problems' per
> se with windows, but more focused on an avenue in which we can offer cipe
> tunnels to any operating system that currently supports java, or any
> platform independent development environment.  And yes, I'm sure such an
> endeavor would create ample problems and sleep loss for the developers, but
> the final product would be something anyone could use on any platform. 
> Which to me is the ultimate goal of any free/opensource software.
>
> As I've stated, I don't have an abundance of time on my hands, even less
> now with a two week old infant, but will gladly contribute any
> time/expertise I have toward such a goal.
>
> Regards,
> ---russ
>
> Russell Berry
> Berrex Computer Solutions
> http://www.berrex.com
> Russ,AT,berrex,DOT,com
> 1-877-558-9507
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Damion K. Wilson" <dwilson,AT,ibl,DOT,bm>
> To: "Russell Berry" <russ,AT,berrex,DOT,com>
> Cc: <cipe-l,AT,inka,DOT,de>
> Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 11:15 AM
> Subject: Re: java
>
> > No problem. Now can I understand where you're coming from.
> >
> > When I approached CIPE-Win32 originally, I had to decide whether I would
> > implement the protocol only, or actually make the software work just like
> > CIPE did already. As you can see, the implementation on Windows has no
> > similarity to that on Linux. This is because the Windows environment is
> > sufficiently dissimilar to cause a Linux style implementation tobe
>
> cumbersome
>
> > and, perhaps, even unworkable.
> >
> > That said, if one were to approach the problem/s by trying to make a
>
> single
>
> > codebase for all platforms, how would you deal with the device drivers
> > and their interactions with the service/daemons ? Would you run separate
> > processes for each adapter instance (resource problems on Windows or with
> > Java) or would you use threading (debugging issues and problems with
>
> pthreads
>
> > on Linux) ? I'm pretty sure that the adapter drivers will have to be
>
> written
>
> > in "C" on both platforms, the only entities that are ripe for rewrite in
> > another language are cipsrvr.exe and ciped-cb.
> >
> > I don't have an opinion on this yet, I'm just going over the obvious
>
> issues. I
>
> > do understand that you envision platform independence as a way of
> > reducing the number of problems with the codebase. However, the solution
> > may
>
> actually
>
> > cause more problems than the problem itself !
> >
> > On Friday 27 June 2003 11:55 am, you wrote:
> > > Hey Damion,
> > >
> > > I apologize if I offended you in some way, I assure you that was not my
> > > intention.  My personal experience with win/cipe has had limited
>
> success.
>
> > > I love linux-linux cipe tunnels, as they are they only VPN that will
>
> hold
>
> > > up on a two way satellite connection for a sustainted period of time.
>
> The
>
> > > problems I've experienced with Windows range from blue screens to
> > > non-specific network failures while using that cipe adapter/service.  I
>
> cut
>
> > > my teeth on C back in the days of K&R when unix wasn't kewl, so I'm
>
> aware
>
> > > of the portability issues, or the lack thereof I should say.
> > >
> > > I feel that we need a platform independent way of implementing cipe,
> > > and
>
> I
>
> > > only use the term proxy in the literal sense. Maybe I should term it
>
> 'proxy
>
> > > routing'.  I admit I haven't read every line of cipe code, time doesn't
> > > permit me such luxuries anymore, so I have to make the assumption that
>
> such
>
> > > an implementation would link into the network protocol stacks a
>
> different
>
> > > way than creating a cipe adapter and I don't even know if there is a
> > > way
>
> to
>
> > > create a virtual adapter with java, or other more portable languages.
> > >
> > > So if you will indulge me, I'll re-state my question this way; Is a
> > > portable language version feasible, and if so how might the bindings to
>
> an
>
> > > 'network adapter' take place?
> > >
> > > Thank you,
> > > ---russ
> > >
> > > Russell Berry
> > > Berrex Computer Solutions
> > > http://www.berrex.com
> > > Russ,AT,berrex,DOT,com
> > > 1-877-558-9507
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Damion Wilson" <dwilson,AT,ibl,DOT,bm>
> > > To: "Russell Berry" <russ,AT,berrex,DOT,com>
> > > Cc: <cipe-l,AT,inka,DOT,de>
> > > Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 11:13 PM
> > > Subject: Re: java
> > >
> > > > There's only the one implementation and I'm acutely aware of the
>
> problems
>
> > > as I
> > >
> > > > keep and have reviewed each of the pertinent emails. However, I'm not
> > >
> > > aware
> > >
> > > > of the problems you perceive and am not particularly clear as to how
>
> they
>
> > > > could be solved by Java or a proxy (?).
> > > >
> > > > My question was not to find out what's on the mailing list, it was to
> > > > find
> > >
> > > out
> > >
> > > > what YOU consider to be problematic, in an effort to make the
> > > > software better, or to simply help you out. This is the way of
> > > > Free/Open Source Software.
> > > >
> > > > Since you're averse to questions, I promise not ask you any more of
>
> them.
>
> > > > Damion K. Wilson
> > > >
> > > > On Thursday 26 June 2003 06:55 pm, you wrote:
> > > > > Well, I've been following this list for a number of years now, I've
> > > > > seen extensive messages about problems with windows
> > > > > implementations.
>
> I
>
> > > > > know you've seen the same posts I have, so how about not answering
> > > > > a question with a question and just address the message I posted?
> > > > >
> > > > > ---russ
> > > > >
> > > > > Russell Berry
> > > > > Berrex Computer Solutions
> > > > > http://www.berrex.com
> > > > > Russ,AT,berrex,DOT,com
> > > > > 1-877-558-9507
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Damion Wilson" <dwilson,AT,ibl,DOT,bm>
> > > > > To: "Russell Berry" <russ,AT,berrex,DOT,com>
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 4:25 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: java
> > > > >
> > > > > > What kinds of obstacles ?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > DKW
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thursday 26 June 2003 11:54 am, Russell Berry wrote:
> > > > > > > I was wondering if anyone has contemplated a java/proxy version
>
> of
>
> > > > > > > cipe.
> > > > >
> > > > > I
> > > > >
> > > > > > > think it may overcome many obstacles faced by MS Windows users.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ---russ
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Russell Berry
> > > > > > > Berrex Computer Solutions
> > > > > > > http://www.berrex.com
> > > > > > > Russ,AT,berrex,DOT,com
> > > > > > > 1-877-558-9507
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Message sent by the cipe-l,AT,inka,DOT,de mailing list.
> > > > Unsubscribe: mail majordomo,AT,inka,DOT,de, "unsubscribe cipe-l" in 
> > > > body
> > > > Other commands available with "help" in body to the same address.
> > > > CIPE info and list archive:
> > >
> > > <URL:http://sites.inka.de/~bigred/devel/cipe.html>
> >
> > --
> > Message sent by the cipe-l,AT,inka,DOT,de mailing list.
> > Unsubscribe: mail majordomo,AT,inka,DOT,de, "unsubscribe cipe-l" in body
> > Other commands available with "help" in body to the same address.
> > CIPE info and list archive:
>
> <URL:http://sites.inka.de/~bigred/devel/cipe.html>


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