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To: Damion Wilson <dwilson,AT,ibl,DOT,bm>
Subject: Re: java - python
From: Chris Fanning <cfanning,AT,terrassa,DOT,uned,DOT,es>
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 12:17:15 +0000
Cc: Russell Berry <russ,AT,berrex,DOT,com>, cipe-l,AT,inka,DOT,de
References: <10d901c33bf2$d6525430$1401010a@berrex.com> <200306271215.24310.dwilson@ibl.bm> <11d801c33cc2$e136c1d0$1401010a@berrex.com> <200306271429.52322.dwilson@ibl.bm>

Perhaps a Python implementation might do it.
The Medusa project, written in python, is an example of socket programming.

At http://www.nightmare.com/medusa/ they say:
"Medusa's core async-socket library is very stable; it has been in use virtually unchanged since 1995."
So that means one process.


I haven't much experience at all with programming sockets. In fact, I've only played about with Medusa and acheived some 'hello world' results.
I'm on this list because, for some tme now, it is my intention to encrypt a couple of ipip tunnels.


So I don't really know much about socket programming or cipe in itself.
Therefore, I'm not at all certain that my suggestion is a valid one although it does 'sound' right.


Chris.

Damion Wilson wrote:
I'm with you. You're thinking of a little environment which has its own partial TCP/IP stack implementing the CIPE protocol that can host Java network programs so that people can get at things without playing with the host system setup. That's not a bad idea. It should be doable and worthwhile, but may take some time hooking things into the Java networking libs

Congratulations, BTW !

DKW

On Friday 27 June 2003 12:43 pm, Russell Berry wrote:

Well, let me move a little further away from Windows, and toward
cross-platform independence. Since java code lives in 'virtual machine'
space the network adapter part would have to be created and accessed within
the java JDK. Again, I'm not sure how that would take place, I haven't
done any java coding in about 5 years so I remember little of what is
available in the way of devices. But I'm not focusing on 'problems' per
se with windows, but more focused on an avenue in which we can offer cipe
tunnels to any operating system that currently supports java, or any
platform independent development environment. And yes, I'm sure such an
endeavor would create ample problems and sleep loss for the developers, but
the final product would be something anyone could use on any platform. Which to me is the ultimate goal of any free/opensource software.


As I've stated, I don't have an abundance of time on my hands, even less
now with a two week old infant, but will gladly contribute any
time/expertise I have toward such a goal.

Regards,
---russ

Russell Berry
Berrex Computer Solutions
http://www.berrex.com
Russ,AT,berrex,DOT,com
1-877-558-9507
----- Original Message -----
From: "Damion K. Wilson" <dwilson,AT,ibl,DOT,bm>
To: "Russell Berry" <russ,AT,berrex,DOT,com>
Cc: <cipe-l,AT,inka,DOT,de>
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 11:15 AM
Subject: Re: java


No problem. Now can I understand where you're coming from.

When I approached CIPE-Win32 originally, I had to decide whether I would
implement the protocol only, or actually make the software work just like
CIPE did already. As you can see, the implementation on Windows has no
similarity to that on Linux. This is because the Windows environment is
sufficiently dissimilar to cause a Linux style implementation tobe

cumbersome



and, perhaps, even unworkable.

That said, if one were to approach the problem/s by trying to make a

single



codebase for all platforms, how would you deal with the device drivers
and their interactions with the service/daemons ? Would you run separate
processes for each adapter instance (resource problems on Windows or with
Java) or would you use threading (debugging issues and problems with

pthreads



on Linux) ? I'm pretty sure that the adapter drivers will have to be

written



in "C" on both platforms, the only entities that are ripe for rewrite in
another language are cipsrvr.exe and ciped-cb.

I don't have an opinion on this yet, I'm just going over the obvious

issues. I



do understand that you envision platform independence as a way of
reducing the number of problems with the codebase. However, the solution
may

actually



cause more problems than the problem itself !

On Friday 27 June 2003 11:55 am, you wrote:

Hey Damion,

I apologize if I offended you in some way, I assure you that was not my
intention.  My personal experience with win/cipe has had limited

success.


I love linux-linux cipe tunnels, as they are they only VPN that will

hold


up on a two way satellite connection for a sustainted period of time.

The


problems I've experienced with Windows range from blue screens to
non-specific network failures while using that cipe adapter/service.  I

cut


my teeth on C back in the days of K&R when unix wasn't kewl, so I'm

aware


of the portability issues, or the lack thereof I should say.

I feel that we need a platform independent way of implementing cipe,
and

I


only use the term proxy in the literal sense. Maybe I should term it

'proxy


routing'.  I admit I haven't read every line of cipe code, time doesn't
permit me such luxuries anymore, so I have to make the assumption that

such


an implementation would link into the network protocol stacks a

different


way than creating a cipe adapter and I don't even know if there is a
way

to


create a virtual adapter with java, or other more portable languages.

So if you will indulge me, I'll re-state my question this way; Is a
portable language version feasible, and if so how might the bindings to

an


'network adapter' take place?

Thank you,
---russ

Russell Berry
Berrex Computer Solutions
http://www.berrex.com
Russ,AT,berrex,DOT,com
1-877-558-9507
----- Original Message -----
From: "Damion Wilson" <dwilson,AT,ibl,DOT,bm>
To: "Russell Berry" <russ,AT,berrex,DOT,com>
Cc: <cipe-l,AT,inka,DOT,de>
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 11:13 PM
Subject: Re: java


There's only the one implementation and I'm acutely aware of the

problems


as I


keep and have reviewed each of the pertinent emails. However, I'm not

aware



of the problems you perceive and am not particularly clear as to how

they


could be solved by Java or a proxy (?).

My question was not to find out what's on the mailing list, it was to
find

out



what YOU consider to be problematic, in an effort to make the
software better, or to simply help you out. This is the way of
Free/Open Source Software.

Since you're averse to questions, I promise not ask you any more of

them.


Damion K. Wilson

On Thursday 26 June 2003 06:55 pm, you wrote:

Well, I've been following this list for a number of years now, I've
seen extensive messages about problems with windows
implementations.

I


know you've seen the same posts I have, so how about not answering
a question with a question and just address the message I posted?

---russ

Russell Berry
Berrex Computer Solutions
http://www.berrex.com
Russ,AT,berrex,DOT,com
1-877-558-9507
----- Original Message -----
From: "Damion Wilson" <dwilson,AT,ibl,DOT,bm>
To: "Russell Berry" <russ,AT,berrex,DOT,com>
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 4:25 PM
Subject: Re: java


What kinds of obstacles ?

DKW

On Thursday 26 June 2003 11:54 am, Russell Berry wrote:

I was wondering if anyone has contemplated a java/proxy version

of


cipe.

I


think it may overcome many obstacles faced by MS Windows users.

---russ

Russell Berry
Berrex Computer Solutions
http://www.berrex.com
Russ,AT,berrex,DOT,com
1-877-558-9507

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