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To: cipe-l,AT,inka,DOT,de
Subject: Re: Cipe configuration error
From: Karl Kleinpaste <karl,AT,charcoal,DOT,com>
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 20:19:47 -0500
Keywords: cipe,openvpn,choice
References: <20070103183546.db162bc3.r.young@irl.cri.nz><yu0slese37c.fsf@mesquite.charcoal.com><20070103171528.ef823567.skraw@ithnet.com><1167844266.7355.19.camel@oldmoola.futuresource.com><20070104042811.84c88c89.skraw@ithnet.com><1167895700.25631.39.camel@bats.omnifarious.org>

skraw,AT,ithnet,DOT,com wrote:
>> What did his answer have to do with the question besides the fact of
>> teaching how superior OpenVPN is in his eyes? He didn't give a damn about
>> the question ... what did his answer have to do with cipe? Exactly zero.

hopper,AT,omnifarious,DOT,org writes:
> I think the question of whether or not CIPE is still a useful project
> given that OpenVPN exists and has such broad cross-platform support is a
> question that is very relevant to CIPE.
> I too feel that CIPE has reached the end of its usefulness

CIPE is old.  It's a plain fact.  And what my answer had to do with
CIPE was the simple fact of that age, and the implications of using a
tool of such advanced years.

When it came into existence, it was needed and very much welcome.  But
there is no longer anything CIPE can do that other systems, notably
but not exclusively OpenVPN, cannot do better and with less pain,
especially in the area of maintaining compatibility with every new
point-release of the kernel, CIPE being all alone in that need.

The only reasons I can conceive for deploying it freshly now are:
[a] Ignorance.  We all start out ignorant; ignorance is not
    blameworthy in itself.  But it is a correctable condition.
[b] New obligations (e.g. business partners) with it already in use.
[c] Foolishness.
Stated differently:
[a] You aren't aware that you have a choice.
[b] You genuinely don't have a choice.
[c] You make a poor choice.

I made contributions to CIPE in its earlier years; I believe I started
using it when it was in the 0.4 stage, but I no longer remember for
sure, it's been over a decade.  And I spent a fair amount of time on
this list (my archives show ~150 messages I've sent to cipe-l), rarely
asking questions of my own and usually helping others configure it and
get a handle on how to route through a tunnel.  But I'm bright enough
to know when it is time to move on.

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